Hadmut Danisch

Ansichten eines Informatikers

Hilferuf aus Indien (Englisch!)

Hadmut
24.7.2015 21:59

Manchmal staune ich über mein eigenes Blog.

Seit ich mein Blog betreibe, erreichen mich immer wieder Hilferufe. Früher viele zu Prüfungsrecht, viele Anfragen von verzweifelten Prüflingen bis hin zu Jura-Studenten, Polizisten und Verkehrspiloten. Seit ich thematisch etwas geschwenkt bin und mich Hochschulschwindel und Feminismus widme, ist nicht nur die Zahl der Leser, sondern auch der Hilfesuchenden und ihrer Themen deutlich angestiegen. Viele wenden sich mit den unterschiedlichsten, oft dramatischen Problemen an mich. Wodurch ich mich zwar geehrt fühle, auch für das Vertrauen, das Leute in mich stecken. Aber ich muss das leider oft enttäuschen. Ich habe weder die Zeit, mich zusätzlich noch um Probleme anderer Leute zu kümmern, noch das Wissen oder die nötige Ausbildung (Rechtsberatung ist halt was für zugelassene Anwälte).

Eben erreichte mich aber ein Hilferuf (naja, nicht ganz aus Indien, sondern von Indern, die in der EU leben), den ich für so außergewöhnlich halte, dass ich ihn – entgegen jeder sonstigen Regel, normalerweise behandle ich das alles streng vertraulich – mal wiedergebe (es wurde ja auch darum gebeten). Ich hatte mal was dazu gebloggt, dass eine femnistische Professorin der Uni Leipzig einen Inder ausgeschlossen hat, weil sie meinte, dass Inder alle Vergewaltiger sind. Ich finde das erstaunlich, denn gerade Feministinnen behaupten doch immer, gegen Vorurteile und Stereotypen zu sein, für Gleichheit, gegen Rassismus, gegen Exklusion. Eine Willkommenskultur für einandernde Fachkräfte ist das jedenfalls nicht. Scheint aber auch für Inder frappierend zu sein, wenn sie aus einem Land mit feministischer Tyrannei nach Europa kommen, glauben, dass sie in einer Zivilisation gelandet sind und dann hier auf sowas stoßen. Es gab zu diesem Blog-Artikel schon einige Kommentare eines Inders, anscheinend hat sich der Artikel rumgesprochen.

Mein Wissen von Indien ist aber sehr gering, ich war auch noch nicht dort. Ich weiß aber von Indien-erfahrenen Bekannten, dass die Verhältnisse dort mitunter sehr schwierig sind. Vor einiger Zeit hat mir schon jemand Hinweise auf (englische) Zeitungsartikel aus Indien geschickt (finde ich gerade nicht, wenn doch, liefere ich sie nach), die ein ganz anderes Bild liefern, als hier in der Presse dargestellt wird, nämlich als das Land häufiger und brutaler Vergewaltigung. Das ist wohl auch zutreffend (wobei es angeblich relativ zur Bevölkerungszahl sogar weniger als in anderen Ländern sind, es nur einfach so viele Menschen dort gibt, dass die absolute Zahl recht hoch ist), aber unvollständig. Denn ein zentrales Problem und damit eine Ursache sei, dass die Richter in Indien angeblich an den Vergewaltigungsfällen verzweifeln, weil eine sehr große Zahl (irgendwo stand mehr als 50%) von Vorwürfen frei erfunden sei, und das nicht nur die Gerichte und Polizei überlastet, sondern auch Ermittlunge und Verurteilungen sehr schwer macht, wenn die Falschbeschuldigungen so hoch sind. Indien war bisher aber gar nicht mein Thema.

Ich möchte jetzt aber einfach mal das Experiment wagen und diesen Text – von dem ich, das sei durchaus angemerkt, noch nicht weiß, ob ich ihn für gut, richtig, zutreffend halten soll, ich kann es eben nicht beurteilen – zur Diskussion stellen. Ich bitte dabei um englischsprachige Diskussion (sofern möglich), weil ich experimentell auch den Leuten, die mich da angeschrieben haben, mal die Möglichkeit zum Mitlesen geben will.

An der Mail waren als Attachment noch 6 Fotos von Zeitungsartikeln angehängt. Zwei auf englisch über Selbstmord bei Männern, die ich aber aus Copyright-Gründen hier nicht wiedergeben kann, und 4 auf Indisch, von denen ich kein Wort verstehe und keinen einzigen Buchstaben kenne. Wer indisch kann: Ich kann sie zuschicken, derjenige kann dann übersetzen und hier als Kommentar posten.

Also: Was haltet Ihr davon? Wie ist das zu bewerten? Stimmt es? Was spricht dafür, was dagegen? Wenn möglich: Englisch!


Dear Mr. Danisch,

I am an Indian living in EU for more than a decade. I have come across your blogs regarding India on Danisch. Situation in India regarding men’s rights is unfortunately very serious and alarming.

We are a group of Indian husbands who are facing cases under section 498a of Indian Penal Code (mental or physical cruelty to wife). Most of us are working as engineers and Doctors in region EU. Each year around 90,000 cases are filed under this section. Since no evidence is required, no medical report is compulsory the misuse of this law has crossed all limits. A case under 498a can only be filed by a wife anytime after marriage or even after divorce and the allegations can be as old as 20 years.

Under 498a, an accused in presumed guilty until proven innocent and the burden of proving his innocence is on him and his family. The offense is cognizable, non-compoundable and non-bailable and since there is no punishment for filing a false case, the misuse of this act is so rampant that Supreme Court of India has declared this law as “Legal Terrorism[1]”.

Minors and children who are related to the husband as nephew or niece have been arrested under this act on a mere complaint of wife. The youngest person arrested was merely 2 months old[2]. No one is spared, be it be parents or grandparents, aged or bedridden, kid or infant. All it needs is a small complaint on A4 paper by a wife and she is free to write any name she thinks accusing her and police has to arrest everyone immediately.

As you may also follow from [1] that in 85% of the cases filed, the accused is able to prove his innocence. The acquittal rate is as high as 98%, in the cases where 498a is used alone, but husband and his parents, siblings, relatives are still arrested and spend days to weeks to months in jail prior to investigation. In 2014, disappointed by the inaction of Government, the Supreme Court of India stepped in again to reduce the misuse by stopping immediate arrest in such cases[3]. But, as you may know that courts do not make laws and police is not bound to follow judgements but laws. The situation has gone so worse that in Delhi for mothers and sisters of husband, Tihar jail has to be used for keeping them there when they are arrested [4], this is the jail where usually terrorists and Indian’s most wanted criminals are kept.

Few countries including USA and Canada have already issued travel warnings due to misuse of dowry harassment law [5].

The male suicide is on rise and is mostly due to 498a. According to the data published by NCRB, 64,000 married men in India committed suicide in 2013. 24% out of which due to family problems due to 498a as we assert. Some of the examples you may find in [6], which also includes disturbing suicide video of Mr. Syed Makdoom who was oppressed, blackmailed, and extorted in the name of 498a. There are 48 such laws that are women and wife biased. 498a is worst of them.

In most of our cases the wives were not successful in filing a complaint of domestic violence in a European state, flew back to India and filed multiple cases there. Indian courts who had no jurisdiction on domestic residence of couple who were living abroad, still took cognizance of such complaints. Our parents and siblings who were not even living with us abroad have been named under 498a and have been arrested.

In such a situation husbands living abroad go to India to fight fake cases. They are arrested at airport and spend days in jail without any investigation being done. Courts impound our passports and we lose our jobs. We usually pay heavy sum to wife to get the cases closed. If we decide to fight then we have to stay in India for years without a job as criminals before trial.

There are husbands who decide not to visit India. In such cases RCN (Red Corner Notice) were issued by Indian police through Interpol, which is usually served to hard core criminals. Since 2009 Interpol was entertaining such notices and extraditing Indian husbands with cases under 498a. But seeing the non-seriousness of cases, they stopped it in 2009 [7]

The purpose of filing such cases is either money or revenge. If husband, his family, and relatives are arrested, he lives under fear of losing job, then most of them give up. 498a is not the only law which a husband has to face. It comes in a packed wrapped with:

  • CrPC 125: Pay regular monthly maintenance to wife. This can be up to 20% of before tax salary. If husband loses his job, it’s his problem because status of the wife should be same as during time when both were living together. Wife is not liable to maintain anyone.
  • Child support: Upto 20% of salary per child
  • DV act of 2005: 20% salary monthly + compensation to wife
  • Hindu Marriage Act: Permanent alimony upto 50% of all assets of husband including property acquired before or after marriage

And yes, she can file multiple claims under different acts using same complaint.

In year 2013, around 200,000 husbands including their parents, mothers, sisters, husband of sisters, brothers, wives of brothers, relative, nephews and niece were arrested under 498a. This included around 450 children. One forth of arrested were women. Irony, that the law was framed to protect women.

There are thousands of Indian husbands living abroad but can not visit their country due to 498a. Even when their parents need them the most when they are ill or when they pass away, such husbands can’t visit India. Such husbands also lose their children when wives take them to India.

I would like to ask you if there is any possibility that you may entertain our blog on your website? Most of us speak English very well and few have knoweldge of German too. We want to create awareness about men’s rights in India. It is one of the safest country for women, but unfortunately portrayed as worst one. I can supply all the material to you. Amongst us are some husbands living in Germany. They too can contact you if need be.

Warm regards,

Victim of 498a, Marital Justice Group

[1] http://lawcommissionofindia.nic.in/reports/report243.pdf [page 44, 3.]

[2] : 2 Month old baby arrested under dowry harassment act

http://archive.mid-day.com/news/2009/jun/210609-Zoya-two-month-old-girl-anticipatory-bail-dowry-harrassment-case-youngest-accused-Mumbai-news.htm

2- and 4-year-olds accused in domestic violence complaint
http://www.bangaloremirror.com/bangalore/crime/2-and-4-year-olds-accused-in-domestic-violence-plaint/articleshow/45663827.cms

7 years old face 498a
http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/seven-yr-old-faces-dowry-charges/13976

[3]: http://indiankanoon.org/doc/2982624/

[4]: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/indianews/article-2682604/Tihar-overflowing-dowry-cases-How-infamous-Delhi-jail-crammed-bursting-women-accused-harassment.html

[5]: Travel Advisory by Canada

http://travel.gc.ca/destinations/india (see laws and culture)

Travel Advisory USA (earlier text, now removed)

A number of U.S.-citizen men who have come to India to marry Indian nationals have been arrested and charged with crimes related to dowry extraction. Many of the charges stem from the U.S. citizen’s inability to provide an immigrant visa for his prospective spouse to travel immediately to the United States. The courts sometimes order the U.S. citizen to pay large sums of money to his spouse in exchange for the dismissal of charges. The courts normally confiscate the American’s passport, and he must remain in India until the case has been settled. There are also cases of U.S.-citizen women of Indian descent whose families force them against their will into marriages to Indian nationals.

[6]: Police inspector shoots himself after wife charged him with 498a
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/nagpur/PSI-shoots-himself-dead-with-service-revolver/articleshow/5249121.cms

Techie suicide due to 498a
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/19204/treated-cruelly-wife-techie-ends.html

Man commited suicide due to wife’s complaint against him in police station (probably under section 498a)
http://www.jagran.com/uttar-pradesh/kannauj-12188732.html#sthash.JNfRnFUx.dpuf

Another suicide by a man making harsh law in the name of protecting woman responsible:
http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report-man-kills-himself-over-harsh-laws-in-the-name-of-protecting-women-2083279

27-years old husband commited suicide. In-laws and wife beat him. Police didn’t file case and finally they threatened him of filing 498a. He uploaded video and circulated through whats App.

Topper from Indian’s topmost university IIT implicated in false 498a, represented himself in the case as lawyer of own, lost job, career, finally won the case
http://www.universityexpress.co.in/delhiuniversity/2015/04/iit-topper-fights-and-wins-own-dowry-harassment-case/

One honest officer in Indian civil services allegedly commited suicide. Initially mafia hand was expected. Now news is unfolding. Allegedly, his wife had affair and he was threatened with 498a. There have been good number of protest to investigate the case in Bangalore but it’s taking new turn
http://www.oneindia.com/india/was-dk-ravi-a-victim-of-section-498-a-men-s-rights-group-asks-1691215.html

Another husband (SW-Engineer) commited suicide due to 498a terror.
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/on-womens-day-read-the-suicide-note-of-a-man/532541-3-236.html

A Doctor commits suicide after wife threatens him with 498a
news.biharprabha.com/2015/03/doctor-commits-suicide-after-wife-alleges-dowry-harssment/

Video of suicide of Mr Makdoon due to blackmail and extortion in the 498a uploaded.

Techie not shown his son, commited suicide after wife filed 498a
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/19204/treated-cruelly-wife-techie-ends.html

Married men suicide on rise due to 498a
http://www.daijiworld.com/news/news_disp.asp?n_id=192622

Teacher accused in dowry case ends life
http://www.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/teacher-accused-in-dowry-case-ends-life-in-police-custody-115062300621_1.html

Due to extortion by airhostess wife, husband commits suicide. Wife was already a widow. The first husband commited suicide within 2 months of marriage.
http://dehradun.amarujala.com/feature/crime-bureau-dun/engineer-pradeep-suicide-air-hostess-wife-arrested-hindi-news/page-1/

Husband commits suicide in front of police officer due to harassment by police caused due to complaint filed by wife in Women’s cell. 498a complaints in North India are handled in Women cell who are bound to support wife by law and fulfil her extortion demand in the form of settlement.
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/gurgaon-man-sets-himself-ablaze-police-wife-fir/1/439051.html

[7] http://www.merinews.com/article/abuse-of-498a-interpol-notices-ends/15767016.shtmlhttp://www.merinews.com/article/abuse-of-498a-interpol-notices-ends/15767016.shtml

Attachments:

1. 3_men_per_week_suicide.jpeg Yes, 3 men per week and these are unofficial figures. NCRB is not bound to collect such data because suicide of a married woman is covered under 304B [husband and his family (by default) are responsible for suicide/unnatural death of a wife if she dies within 7 years of marriage until proven innocent]. The article304B, is just like 498a and 376 (rape) is against Article 21 of life and liberty of Indian constitution under which accused is presumed innocent until proven guilty.

2. another_suicide_ex_armyman.jpeg due to harassment he faced due to DV act. Yes in India there are multiple laws to file cases against husband. In short:
– 498a: Cruelty and dowry
– DP3/4: Taking or giving dowry
– CrPC 125: to file maintenance which can be only filed against husband, a son or a father. Women no matter working or not working is not liable to maintain anyone
– DV act: Again maintenance to be claimed from husband/in-laws/live-in partner by a wife or a girl-friend
– IPC 377: Unnatural sex by husband. No need of medical report. Man can’t file it against a woman.
– Hindu marriage act: Maintainence and alimony case against husband. Wife not liable to pay anything.

I can’t write the complete list here. There are cases where women have filed forced abortion cases against husband without any medical/hospital report. Since the Supreme court intervention last year making the arrest under 498a not immediate, wives have started filing rape and molestation cases against husband’s relatives including forced abortion and unnatural sex. Accused get acquitted or pay money as settlement but all this make arrest inevitable.

3. bank_employee_498a_caused_suicide.jpeg

4. Suicide_wife_complaint.png: Wife filed complaint against husband and he was disappointed by police biasness to an extent that he burnt himself.

5. 498aThreatsuicide.JPG: Husband commits suicide after wife threatened him with dowry harassment law (498a)

6. 21_yrs_old_husband_suicide.jpg: Husband commits suicide after wife lodged dowry harassment case in police station

3_men_per_week_suicide.jpg

another_suicide_ex_armyman.jpg

bank_employee_498a_caused_suicide.jpg

Suicide_wife_complaint.png

21_yrs_old_husband_suicide.jpg

498aThreatsuicide.JPG

65 Kommentare (RSS-Feed)

only_me
24.7.2015 23:02
Kommentarlink

The situation of men in India is a regular topic on a voice for men.

http://www.avoiceformen.com/region/asia/india/


Duschbrauser
24.7.2015 23:23
Kommentarlink

Was die Söhne wohl über ihre Mütter denken?

Und was sind das für Polizisten, die das alles mittragen.


Jörg
24.7.2015 23:45
Kommentarlink

Solche irrsinnigen Gesetze kann es nur in Ländern mit Frauenwahlrecht geben.

Parteien machen solche Gesetze, um sich die Stimmen der Frauen zu sichern. Das ist auch bei uns nicht anders: Man verspricht den Frauen leichteren Zugang zu Führungspositionen, oder erlaubt ihnen, ihr ungeborenes Kind umzubringen.

Es wird Zeit, darüber nachzudenken, ob das Frauenwahlrecht richtig war.


WikiMANNia
24.7.2015 23:56
Kommentarlink

Die Plattform
http://en.wikimannia.org

steht auch Männern aus India zur Verfügung.

Leider haben wir gerade technische Probleme. Aber sobald wir wieder flott sind, können die sich bei uns melden.


Anmibe
25.7.2015 0:05
Kommentarlink

einandernde Fachkräfte

Wortschöpfung?


Oliver K
25.7.2015 0:10
Kommentarlink

I looked at http://maritaljustice.org/ , and it seems to me a rather weak web page. I think there is the typical misunderstanding, that males try to gain attention as victims the same way as woman do. And this does not work, I think partially for good reasons. As a man, you must argue from a position of strength, not of weakness.

You say you are a “group of professionals”, but you don’t really speak like that. I think you are in the trap of suffering under the feminised world, and in reaction to that you have only the means of the feminised world — being a victim.

Concretely speaking, looking at http://maritaljustice.org/pages/events/ , you have for example a “candle light march” — what self-respecting professional would participate in such an event? Me never.

I think you need to fight, and that in order to win (and to destroy).
Look at your motto: “Marital Justice one’s gain, another’s pain”. One feel how you dare not to speak of the *total* injustice, but you only want to make some adjustments, also raising a little voice, there are exaggerations etc. And, of course, given the current ideology, many people will say “RIGHT SO” (woman should gain, man should loose).


Anmibe
25.7.2015 0:11
Kommentarlink

… you may entertain our blog…

Habe ich das übersehen oder wolltest Du kein Link zu dem vom Einsender erwähnten Blog setzen?


Hadmut
25.7.2015 0:22
Kommentarlink

@Anmibe: Ich dachte, ich hätte alle Links übernommen. Bei entertain hatten sie keinen Link drin, erst bei der Absenderangabe (bei der ich den Link übernommen habe).

Vermutlich beziehen sie sich auf http://maritaljustice.org/


Cpt.Chilli
25.7.2015 0:18
Kommentarlink

Ich habe das Anliegen der Inder in wgvdl.com veröffentlicht mit der Bitte, sich deren Schreiben durchzulesen und Hilfe zu leisten, falls sich jemand dazu imstande sieht. Da man dort englische Texte ungern sieht, habe ich den Schlussabsatz übersetzt eingestellt. “Wiki”, ein Redaktionsmitglied der WikiMANNIA hat angeboten, dass sich die Inder an die Redaktion wenden können, wenn die internen Baustellen erledigt sind. Wobei ich nicht weiß, worum es sich bei diesen handelt. Aber immerhin ein Anfang.


Nirbha
25.7.2015 1:05
Kommentarlink

@Oliver K

Marital Justice started few weeks ago. These are the former existing groups of hundred thousands of Indians.

http://saveindianfamily.in/
http://www.saveindianfamily.org/
http://www.498a.org/dvblogs.htm
http://forum.498a.org/
http://www.family-harmony.org/
http://498a.co.in/
https://savefamilydowryact.wordpress.com/know-the-law/
http://menrightsindia.net/
http://harassed-husbands.blogspot.de/

These are pages/sites run by volenteers who have to hide themselves most of the times from state. Many pages are blocked by Indian internet service provides on Government instructions. Private men’s distressed helplines have started by save india family, but again not recognized and integrated in state helpline system that runs helpline only for women.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/kolkata/Mens-helpline-gets-25000-calls-over-four-months-in-Kolkata/articleshow/42693066.cms

I don’t know how these people are running such sites. The stress level is so high..when parents are jailed, husband hasn’t seen his children and parents for years, Indian police declares him proclaimed offender and suddenly he appears on Interpol most wanted list. There have been a number of pocket protests against this law but mostly not covered by main-stream media.

Oliver with at least 5 court cases on a husband with family jailed, job gone there is no scope and time for protest. And protest against law when you are tried under that law is taken negative by the trial-courts.

By the way, important point has been missed. A wife can file case anywhere in India. If her parents live 500 kms (not big distance in India) from husband’s place, then she files a case there..and 5 times in a month at least the whole family of husband has to go to that state to attend the court date after they are released from jail to face the trial.

Follow #scrap498a and #fakecases on twitter.


fermie
25.7.2015 1:35
Kommentarlink

Herr Danisch,

seit ihrem Post bzgl. der Uni Leipzig hat es Entwicklungen gegeben. So haben sowohl die Rektorin der Universität als auch der StudentInnenrat Einblick in den Mailverkehr genommen mit dem Ergebnis, dass die E mail des Inders manipuliert wurde.

In ihrem aktuellen Post erwecken Sie den Eindruck, die E mail sei echt. Ich bitte Sie sich zu korrigieren oder zu den Einlassungen oben genannter Personen zu äußern.


Hadmut
25.7.2015 10:34
Kommentarlink

@fermie:

> Ich bitte Sie sich zu korrigieren oder zu den Einlassungen oben genannter Personen zu äußern.

Das könnte ich gerne tun (oder zumindest in Erwägung ziehen), wenn ich denn die Einlassungen und neuen Vorgänge überhaupt kennen würde. Doch weder geben sie eine Quelle an, noch bin ich im Hellsehen so wirklich gut.


Herbert
25.7.2015 3:03
Kommentarlink

that whole situation is sickening me, my sincere condolences to all affected


jck5000
25.7.2015 4:28
Kommentarlink

Wouldn’t that be a reason for political asylum in Germany? Incarceration without due process actually is a human rights violation, right? As is, by the text of the law, the obvious violation of the right to redress injustice. Says Article 5 of the Konvention zum Schutze der Menschenrechte und Grundfreiheiten.

I am pretty sure most western countries do have similar laws. Anyone know if this was tried yet – and for what reason it was turned down, if it was? And if it was not tried yet: Why not? In _every_ other country?

@Indian men: It may seem honorable to try to improve “your” country, because it’s _your_ country and all other countries are full of racist pricks (which holds about true for every countryman in every other country), _but_ we do live in a globalized world, so – just do not give a shit. If there is a way to annoy a government of a billion-people-country enough to change shitty laws as a minority, I cannot come up with a better idea than to annoy governments of smaller countries with high GDP, as they will annoy your governments _for_ you. If I were you, my bets would be on Germany, France and the UK. Go try; your post sounded like you have nothing to lose anyway.


WikiMANNia
25.7.2015 6:45
Kommentarlink

@Cpt.Chilli
wgvdl.com ist ein Schwafelforum, da macht keiner was.

In WikiMANNia haben wir angefangen, uns mit dem Problem in Indien zu beschäftigen. Aber ohne jemanden, der wirklich im Thema drinsteckt und die entsprechenden Infos herbeischafft, kommt man da nicht weit:

http://de.wikimannia.org/Indien
http://de.wikimannia.org/Save_Indian_Family_Foundation

Leider wurden wir von einem Problem auf dem falschen Fuß erwischt und die Behebung wird ein paar Tage dauern.


Christine
25.7.2015 6:54
Kommentarlink

Mangels genügender Englischkenntnisse hier mein Kommentar auf Deutsch:

Zunächst einmal der Link zu WGvdL von Cpt.Chilli, wo ich gerade zwei Videos mit Text von RT Deutsch eingestellt habe http://www.wgvdl.com/forum3/index.php?id=59448

Da man sich bei RT Deutsch nicht anmelden muss, kann man auch dort seine Kommentare zum Thema abgeben http://www.rtdeutsch.com/26646/unkommentiert/indien-mutmasslicher-sexueller-straftaeter-an-baum-gebunden-und-zur-pruegel-freigegeben/


Kai
25.7.2015 8:24
Kommentarlink

Dear Marital Justice Group, please post this to
reddit.com/r/MensRights/ (116,258 readers), and voat.co/v/MensRightsIndia (just getting started), I’ve never heard your side of the story before and I feel this needs much more exposure.

regards


Norbert_G
25.7.2015 8:54
Kommentarlink

“… eine femnistische Professorin der Uni Leipzig einen Inder ausgeschlossen hat, weil sie meinte, dass Inder alle Vergewaltiger sind. Ich finde das erstaunlich, …”

This “femnistische Professorin der Uni Leipzig” might be not too good informed.
The international raping statistics show an other reality.
Does this “femministische Professorin” hence also reject male students from Germany and Sweden?
See this information:

“Vergewaltigungsrate in Schweden am höchsten” (Die Welt, 4’09)
http://www.welt.de/politik/article3643996/Vergewaltigungsrate-in-Schweden-am-hoechsten.html

“Welches Land hat die höchste Vergewaltigungsrate der Welt?” (Blog, 2’13):
heplev.wordpress.com/2013/02/20/welches-land-hat-die-hochste-vergewaltigungsrate-der-welt

“In Deutschland werden mehr Frauen vergewaltigt als in Indien” (11’13)
http://www.theintelligence.de/index.php/gesellschaft/volksverdummung/5108-in-deutschland-werden-mehr-frauen-vergewaltigt-als-in-indien.html


Stuergel
25.7.2015 9:45
Kommentarlink

First, I want to second Oliver K. He’s right, arguing from a victim position only works for men to highlight sex-based injustice and sexism, but not for men in general.

The reason is the human nature. Almost all men have an instinct to help (a weak) women and they will throw their fellow men under the bus in sake for women. And woman have an in-group bias towards other woman and will side with women in general. That’s why the victim position works so well for feminism et al.

This won’t do for men.

And second, you Indian men have an poor image in our mainstream media, which sadly does not report fairly about any sex-related issue. According to our mainstream media India is rampant with rape and no Indian woman is safe. These are the very same people that will scream Fremdenhaß at every opportunity.

However not all is lost. genderama.blogspot.de regulary reports about the unfairness Indian men face in Indian society and maybe you will want to get in touch with him to spread your case.


Manfred P.
25.7.2015 10:22
Kommentarlink

@Oliver K

While I understand your basic tenet from an emotional point of view, one has to look at the pragmatic circumstances and what a man in that situation can really do.

It’s really cheap talk from someone who doesn’t face governmental prosecution. It’s one thing to tell your wife to shut up, it’s another thing when police officers arrest you, causing you to lose your job and therefore the financial means to fight the battle, and having to prove your innocence.

How are you going to prove it if the wife claims that 10 years ago when you to were alone, you’ve beaten her to the ground and she never saw a doctor because of shame? How do you prove that this never happened? It’s testimony against testimony.

Besides, I’d like to see you standing up to German police officers when no quota police chick is around. They’ll simply beat the shit out of you and charge you with assault, and YOU’LL go to jail or at least pay a fine for having “assaulted” them, unless there is no video of the incident.

The rule of law becomes problematic when the law is used as a weapon against the population or parts thereof.


A Stranger in a strange World
25.7.2015 10:59
Kommentarlink

@Nirbha
It might be helpful to explain the concepts of dowry harassment and dowry extortion in more detail. In the western world a dowry is quite uncommon nowadays and most european readers (including me) will have not the remotest idea what a dowry harassment and/or extortion might possibly be or how a girl can be accused of either (not to mention the girls age).

After all I have to admit that Indian lawmakers apparently have achieved the virtually impossible: Creating a legal system that’s even more bizarre than western legal systems are. That must have been a hard piece of work.

Having read some of the articles you provided my personal advice to Indian men or general men in India is:
Don’t marry, be happy. (note the missing smileys)


Männerstreik
25.7.2015 11:01
Kommentarlink

@Hadmut:

Ich glaube, die Gender-Spackeria bekommt langsam Probleme, mit der Luft, die immer häufiger in deren Wolkenkuckuksheim brennt. Deshalb wollen sie mit solchen dümmlichen Kommentaren so tun als sei die Wahrheit angeblich nicht richtig. Erinnert mich an Macbeth: “Fair is foul and foul is fair…” In Macbeth kommt dieser Spruch von Hexen, passt aber auch zu den heutigen westlichen Feministinnen perfekt… 😀


fermie
25.7.2015 11:07
Kommentarlink

Hadmut
25.7.2015 11:43
Kommentarlink

@fermie: Tut mir leid, aber auf dieser „Grundlage” werd ich hier gar nichts ändern.

  • Ein „Student_innenRat” hat bei mir Glaubwürdigkeitswerte nahe bei Null.
  • Sie sagen mit keinem Wort, wie es denn gewesen sein soll. Selbst wenn man ihnen glauben wollte, sie sagen ja nichts, was man ihnen glauben könnte.

    Daraufhin folgte ein sehr emotional geführter E-Mail Wechsel, bei dem Frau Prof. Dr. Beck-Sickinger ihre Sicht auf die Situation von Frauen in Indien erläuterte.
    Wir können demzufolge aber bestätigen, dass der E-Mail Verkehr, so wie er zu Beginn der Debatte veröffentlicht wurde, so nicht existiert und erheblich manipuliert wurde. Somit ist der Vorwurf der Ablehnung des Praktikumsplatzes aus strukturell – rassistischen Gründen nicht haltbar.

    „so nicht existiert” – aber wie dann? Sie geben ja zu, dass sie sich dazu geäußert hat, und auch in der Süddeutschen wird erwähnt, dass der Vorwurf nur lediglich nicht in der ersten Mail stattfand. Außerdem habe ich schon oft beobachtet, dass man sich an irgendwelchen belanglosen Details hochziehen will um zu sagen „so nicht existiert”, ohne dazu zu sagen, wie es nun aber war.

  • Ich soll also blind einem hochpolitisierten lobbyistischen Gremium glauben, das nur sagt, dass das jetzt nicht ganz exakt so war, aber nicht mal selbst behauptet, dass es wesentlich anders war?
  • Ist doch merkwürdig: Beschuldigt eine Frau einen Mann des Sexismus oder Rassismus, wird gar nichts aufgeklärt, und alle sind sich einig, dass er schuldig ist, und sogar wissentlich falsche Vorwürfe werden als politisch gerechtfertigt angesehen, der Mann ist erledigt. Beschuldigt aber ein Mann eine Frau, dann kommen sie alle angerannt und fordern, das müsse sofort und genauestens untersucht werden, und wenn das nur ein kleines bisschen anders war, heißt es sofort, das sei ja so nicht gewesen.

    Ich weise mal auf die Unterschiede im Umgang mit Tim Hunt und dieser Professorin hin.

    Und ich weise auch mal darauf hin, wie der Feminismus mit Rainer Brüderle umgegangen ist.

    Ich werde mich nicht daran beteiligen, hier zweierlei Maßstäbe einzuführen und Frauen soviel anders zu behandeln als Männer behandelt werden.

Sorry. Änderungswunsch wegen Substanzlosigkeit abgelehnt.


Heinz
25.7.2015 11:18
Kommentarlink

typo: “auch Ermittlunge”

die Richter in Indien angeblich an den Vergewaltigungsfällen verzweifeln, weil eine sehr große Zahl (irgendwo stand mehr als 50%) von Vorwürfen frei erfunden sei

also wie bei uns


leser
25.7.2015 12:26
Kommentarlink

Nur am Rande (und nicht direkt zum evtl. Rassismus gegen den/die Inder): über Probleme Indiens kann man schwer reden, wenn man die Kastenzugehürigkeit des Sprechers nicht kennt.

Nur als Beispiel: als es letztens um die schlimmen Vergewaltigungen in Indien ging, ging es da um eine Frau aus einer höheren Kaste, die von Männern niederer Kasten vergewaltigt wurde. Das Problem für Indien war hier weniger die Vergewaltigung selbst, als das “nach oben treten”, welches da mit drin steckte und dies auch noch in aller Öffentlichkeit geschah (in einem Bus). Die Unberührbaren dürfen nicht nur nicht angefasst werden, sie dürfen auch nicht anfassen. Das ist wie eine Art umgekehrter Midas. Und daß die umgekehrten Midase diese Regel gebrochen haben, wiegt in Indien mindestens so schwer wie die Vergewaltigung.

Akademiker zählen in Indien selten zu niederen Kasten, denen ist der Zugang zur Uni mitunter verboten. Schon ab hier wird es schwer, Diskriminierung und Privilegierung gegeneinander aufzuwiegen.

Aus dem Grund muss man auch Feminismus in Indien anders betrachten. Selbst wenn der von “alle Frauen” redet, so meint er immer nur die der eigenen oder der höheren Kasten und das ist im Gegensatz zu unseren Breiten auch selbstredend klar (und zwar auf eine deutlich andere Weise, als hier über “alle Frauen” geheuchelt wird. Dieses Heucheln wäre in Indien wegen der Kasten so kaum möglich).

Zu der Story hier fehlen Informationen. Es könnte auch gut sein, daß hier höher kastige Männer irgendwann mal eine niedrig kastige Frau geschnackselt haben und sich dann vom Acker machten, weil niedrig kastige gegen höher kastige in großen Teilen nicht mal Klagerechte haben. Es wäre nicht unmöglich, daß diese “martial law” hier irgendwie gegen die Erfinder gewendet wurde (die nie aus den niederen Kasten kommen, da keinen Zugang zu den entscheidenden Stellen).

Dagegen spricht die hohe Zahl an Fällen (200.000 in drei Jahren). Die hat mich spontan an die “lettres de cachet” aus dem vorrevolutionären Frankreich erinnert. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lettre_de_cachet
Die wurden auch nicht selten einfach dafür genutzt, jemand “nervigen” prozesslos hinter Mauern zu bringen und sollten eine fortschrittlichere Antwort auf ein dysfunktionales Justizsystem sein, deren Aufklärungsquoten so gering waren, daß auch die öffentlich-exzessiven Bestrafungen kaum noch abgeschreckt haben (da nur die wenigsten Täter dingfest gemacht werden konnten; eine weitere Antwort darauf war die Weiterentwicklung der “Polizey”). Laut Literatur waren diese Briefe aber auch ein (harter) Weg zu einer modernen Justiz, d.h. einer, die “nach Maß” straft, nicht exzessiv und nach Talionsprinzip. Vielleicht erlebt Indien hier auch gerade eine Art Aufklärung in der Justiz, falls diese “Martial law” tatsächlich Kastengrenzen überschreitet, was aber nur schwer vorstellbar ist.
Die Lettres de Cachet wurden übrigens auch sehr gerne von frustrierten Frauen verwendet, um ihre bspw. rumprassenden, spielsüchtigen, trunksüchtigen, rumhurenden oder sonst wie tugendlosen Ehemänner los zu werden oder sicher auch mal für die bloße Alimente. Andersrum (Mann gegen Frau) gab es das ebenso, wobei hier häufiger auf mangelnde mütterliche Qualitäten oder Untreue abgestellt wurde. Und es gab dies auch gegen eigene Kinder, wenn die einem zu kostspielig waren (untere Klassen) oder einem den Ruf nachhaltig ruinierten, sei es durch ihren Zustand im Sinne von Behinderungen oder sei es durch gewisse Taten. Die Armen habe ihre Kinder allerdings eher einfach ausgesetzt, als sie zu “cachetisieren”.
Und diese lettres haben über die knapp 70 Jahre ihrer Existenz (ca 1720-1789) auch immer mehr Groll gegen den König bewirkt, weil damit sehr viel Schindluder getrieben worden ist, was bei prozesslosen Bestrafungen auch nicht verwundert. 1720 muss man das allerdings erst noch lernen und evtl. lernt Indien das auch gerade.

Trotzdem bin ich skeptisch, wenn indische Akademiker über Unrecht in ihrem Land klagen. Man kann in Indien kaum Akademiker werden, ohne nicht selbst (durch Kasten legitmiertes) Unrecht an anderen aus niederen Kasten zu tun. Man hat allein schon seinen sicheren Platz an der Uni, weil so unglaublich viele “Niedere” darauf niemals einen Anspruch haben werden, ebenso wenig wie auf flächendeckende Grundschulbildung. Daher klingt es etwas nach eher kasteninternen Problemen, die verglichen mit Indiens sonstigen Ungerechtigkeiten wie Klagen auf hohem Niveau wirken. Die niederen Kasten werden dieses “lettre de cachet”-Recht womöglich gar nicht erst haben und wenn doch, so haben sie wahrscheinlich keine Möglichkeit, es in Anwendung zu bringen. Insofern klingt es danach, als würden entweder höhere Kasten intern mit diesem Mittel Krieg führen oder aber als würden Angehörige höherer Kasten als die Akademiker es sind jenen das Leben schwer machen wollen, weil sie sich von Geburtskaste her dazu berechtigt sehen.

Man kann über indische Probleme zwischen Männern und Frauen nicht klar denken, wenn man die Kasten nicht mitdenkt.


Nirbha
25.7.2015 12:28
Kommentarlink

@Heinz

Actual figure is 78% false rape cases. I am sure it is same as in West with few differences:

– Burden of proof is on accused
– Accused is immediately arrested and is jailed till the end of trial
– Trial takes years as courts are already over-filled with cases
– Accused is presumed guilty, until proven innocent
– Accused is given no powers to collect evidences

And consensual sex can also become rape, if a man promises to marry the girl and later doesn’t marry her. In live-in relationship this is very common when boyfriend doesn’t want to marry his girlfriend then she has option to file rape case on him. In Indian city of Mumbai, 72% of accused are boyfriends who don’t want to marry their girlfriends.

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-72-of-rape-in-mumbai-by-victim-s-boyfriends-on-pretext-of-marriage-2038830

DOWRY:

– Any gifts given by woman’s or her family to the husband or his family during, before or after marriage. Gifts given by husband + family to wife+family IS NOT Dowry and constitutes her property.
– Reason for tradition: Traditionally, women didn’t work and when she gets married her parents gave her a part of their property during marriage. Afterwards, her husband was responsible to maintain her financially for whole life.

..Indian Government banned it officially in 1964, but it continued and in 1984 it was criminalised under 498a.
..In 2005, a daughter will have equal share in parents property, but she is not liable to maintain her parents.
..She must not bring her property into marriage, but husband must bring his part
..she is not liable to maintain husband and kids and parents..it’s husband job and her brother who must take care of her parents

Under 498a, it is not necessary whether any dowry was exchanged during wedding. If the wife says that husband & Co. harassed her for dowry, it means she was harassed until proven.


ST_T
25.7.2015 13:50
Kommentarlink

The problem is way more complicated than only the article 498a of the indian law:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowry_system_in_India


derdiebuchstabenzaehlt
25.7.2015 13:54
Kommentarlink

@ StudentInnenrat

Sag mal, bist Du sicher, die haben Abitur? Deutsch ist denen wohl zu schwer …

Nebenbei. Warum will die Uni denn den Mailverkehr nicht offenlegen? Behaupten kann man viel. Was haben die zu verbergen?


tuka
25.7.2015 16:30
Kommentarlink

@Hadmut:

Du hast den wichtigsten Punkt übersehen: “aus strukturell – rassistischen Gründen”

Dieser “Rat” hat somit überhaupt nichts zu Vorwurf gesagt. Der Vorwurf besteht in individuellem Rassismus, nicht in strukturellem Rassismus.


Marcus Junge
25.7.2015 18:12
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Die Anmerkung
25.7.2015 19:03
Kommentarlink

OT

http://www.huffingtonpost.de/2015/07/24/terrorgefahr-deutsche-rechte-gewalt_n_7864900.html

Die größte Terrorgefahr für Deutschland sind weiße unzufriedene Männer
—–
Die größte Gefahrt geht wohl eher von wießen zufriedenen dumpfbackigen Rauchern aus.

http://www.mikrotext.de/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Sebastian-Christ-c-Marc-Roehlig-400-400.jpg


Nirbha
25.7.2015 23:50
Kommentarlink

@leser

I don’t know how people outside India know about cast more than Indians. In India poor suffers in fighting with rich and a man suffers in fighting with woman.

Judiciary and law never discrimnate on basis cast. But yes if wife is from historically lowest cast (SC) and uses protection of SC/ST act with 498a against husband (who is from upper caste), then his arrest is guranteed.


Andy
26.7.2015 6:17
Kommentarlink

>> Solche irrsinnigen Gesetze kann es nur in Ländern mit Frauenwahlrecht geben.

Humbug. Politiker brauchen nicht zwingend weibliche Stimmen um total blödsinnige Gesetze zu erlassen.

>> oder erlaubt ihnen, ihr ungeborenes Kind umzubringen.

Männer die sich in die Frage um Abtreibung einmischen machen sich lächerlich. Immerhin sind Männer von dem Gesetz unbetroffen, müssten wir Männer (ggf. ungewollt) neun Monate einen Parasiten austragen wäre die Abtreibung eine der ersten Prozeduren die die moderne Medizin perfektioniert und der Gesetzgeber freigegeben hatte…

>> Es wird Zeit, darüber nachzudenken, ob das Frauenwahlrecht richtig war.

Und welches Kind wollen sie danach mit dem Bad ausschütten?


tuka
26.7.2015 9:51
Kommentarlink

@Andy: Humbug. Politiker brauchen nicht zwingend weibliche Stimmen um total blödsinnige Gesetze zu erlassen.

Doch. Denn es sind Männer die für die Gesetze bezahlen. Es sind Frauen die die Nutzniesser solcher Gesetze sind. Und es sind Politiker, die Männer gegen Frauen ausspielen.


Heinz
26.7.2015 9:53
Kommentarlink

@Nirbha
No
– Burden of proof is on accused
– Accused is immediately arrested and is jailed till the end of trial
– Trial takes years as courts are already over-filled with cases
– Accused is presumed guilty, until proven innocent
– Accused is given no powers to collect evidences

is here, in some cases (like the case of Horst Arnold and Jörg Kachelmann), the same.

“And consensual sex can also become rape, if a man promises to marry the girl and later doesn’t marry her.”

that´s different in the west, but we are on a way to that.


derdiebuchstabenzaehlt
26.7.2015 10:16
Kommentarlink

@ Anda

> müssten wir Männer (ggf. ungewollt) neun Monate einen Parasiten austragen

Kinder sind Parasiten? .. Wirklich? Schwangere sind also Parasitenträgerinnen und Menschenkinder demnach Parasiten?

Darf ich Dich also ensthaft als Schmarotzer bezeichnen? Als Parasit in Menschengestalt?


User
26.7.2015 12:02
Kommentarlink

sry but nothing of the issues you reported in your mail to Hadmut can be evaluated by a random german blog reader.

i read your mail and i think: ok if its true its terrible but is it true? i dont know. and if it is true? what can i do bout this or what do you think i should do?


Andy
26.7.2015 13:21
Kommentarlink

>> Kinder sind Parasiten? .. Wirklich? Schwangere sind also Parasitenträgerinnen und Menschenkinder demnach Parasiten?

“Parasitismus im engeren Sinne bezeichnet den Ressourcenerwerb mittels eines in der Regel erheblich größeren[1] Organismus, meist dient die Körperflüssigkeit dieses Organismus als Nahrung”

Die (durchaus gewollt überspitzte) Definition haut doch hin. Finde die Bezeichnung trifft durchaus den Kern einer ungewollten Schwangerschaft.

>> Darf ich Dich also ensthaft als Schmarotzer bezeichnen? Als Parasit in Menschengestalt?

Kannst Du machen, wäre aber lächerlich da ich keine ungewollte Schwangerschaft war, meine Mutter sich freiwillig entschieden hat die Qualen durchzustehen und mich 9 Monate lang auszutragen. Da wir Männer nie in diese Verlegenheit kommen so eine Entscheidung zu treffen (oder solch eine Schwangerschaft durchzustehen) sollten wir uns aus der Debatte um den rechtlichen Status von Abtreibungen heraushalten. Mehr wollte ich damit gar nicht sagen.


Andy
26.7.2015 13:37
Kommentarlink

>> Doch. Denn es sind Männer die für die Gesetze bezahlen. Es sind Frauen die die Nutzniesser solcher Gesetze sind. Und es sind Politiker, die Männer gegen Frauen ausspielen.

Weil Frauen ja in Indien so furchtbar viel zu melden haben und das Land als Hochburg des Feminismus notorisch ist.

Ich wette keiner der Kommentatoren hat sich mal die Mühe gemacht die genannten Gesetze zu googlen um ein rudimentäres Verständnis der Entstehung dieser Gesetze erhalten. Und somit hat auch keiner gemerkt das sich seit Anfang 2015 langsam eine Reform abzeichnet um den grassierenden Missbrauch einzuschränken.

Also im Prinzip gibts hier recht wenig zu sehen. Ein Land in dem “Witwenverbrennung” immer noch eine sozial hoch angesehene Handlung ist hat allerdings auch ganz andere vordringlichere Baustellen. Nicht das das eine Übel das andere Übel “egalisiert”, aber den Kommentatoren hier (mir inklusive) fehlt einfach das Rundumverständnis der indischen Kultur um das zu bewerten.


Splitcells
26.7.2015 13:51
Kommentarlink

@User

If you mean by random german blog reader
someone who is just reading this article than you
are probably right.
On the other hand there are quite some things
that can be evaluted given enough time and without the
need to move to India.

If that is true which is stated in the email it should
be possible to evalute some information of it.
For example the statment “As you may also follow from [1] that in 85%
of the cases filed, the accused is able to prove his innocence”
seems to be based on an government report
from “Law Commission of India Ministry of Law & Justice”.

One could start looking into the report and find out
if that information is really stated in that report.
Also one could evaluted that the source of this report
is the expected one (and not just one random website
making the illusion that it is run by goverment).

The interpretation of 498a also seems to be a thing
that should possible to evalute (the email contains some
source for that too).


Gedöns
26.7.2015 14:03
Kommentarlink

Paßt zwar besser hier rein:
https://www.danisch.de/blog/2015/07/24/wenn-forscherinnen-korrelationen-fur-kausalitaten-halten/comment-page-1/#comment-90604
aber egal: es ist auch irgendwie parasitär, wenn man sich (wie in China) der Organe von Hingerichteten bedient, auch wenn dies wohl vegetarisch ist:
http://kath.net/news/51433


Hadmut
26.7.2015 14:06
Kommentarlink

> auch wenn dies wohl vegetarisch ist: http://kath.net/news/51433

Was, bitteschön, hat das mit dem Blog-Artikel oder „vegetarisch” zu tun?


derdiebuchstabenzaehlt
26.7.2015 16:38
Kommentarlink

@ Andy

>Weil Frauen ja in Indien so furchtbar viel zu melden haben und das Land als Hochburg des Feminismus notorisch ist.

Was hat das mit ungerechten Gesetzen zu tun?

>Ich wette keiner der Kommentatoren hat sich mal die Mühe gemacht die genannten Gesetze zu googlen um ein rudimentäres Verständnis der Entstehung dieser Gesetze erhalten.

Wette verloren.

>Ein Land in dem “Witwenverbrennung” immer noch eine sozial hoch angesehene Handlung ist …

Wo wir gerade bei 2015 sind, hast Du ein aktuelles Beispiel aus dem Jahr?

Ein Land, daß Gesetze erlässt, wo der Angeklagte seine Unschuld beweisen muss hat wirklich ein Problem. Das betrifft nicht nur Indien, sondern auch die USA oder sonst einen Staat.

PS: Du hast im Zusammenhang mit kleinmenschlichen Parasitismus von “(ggf. ungewollt)” gesprochen. Ob der Parasiteneinspritzer und spätere Parasitenfinanzier dies wollte, hat Euch ja eh nie gekratzt.


Nirbha
26.7.2015 16:51
Kommentarlink

@Andy

Here are the proposed by law-comission or India under Malimath Comittee report the offence to be made bailable and stop siezing of passports [14.5] and do not stop husbands to work and earn money.

http://lawcommissionofindia.nic.in/reports/report243.pdf

From 8.5 it is clear that since 2003, law comission has over and over recommended that 498a needs amendments. This was another report to make law not draconian.

Fearing amendements Government recommended another law DV-Act of 2005, similar to 498a with a difference that it will provide maintenance and compensation from husband to wife.

Guess what..Government did not do any reform in 498a but still brought DV-Act. So since 2005, husbands have to fight 2 laws..i.e. 498a and DV (Domestic violence).

And now to the height, the new proposed amendements ignored all those recommended by Law Comission. The proposed amendments are:
– Make 498a compooundable, so that husband-wife can settle case with money. Till now settlments were out of court only and wife was not giving tax on the money received in the form of settlement. Now Government will get tax on it.
– Penalty for filing fake case = 200 € for women. Do you really think any husband after 5-6 years of fight will fight for another 2-3 years so that the wife is fined with 200€?

Coming back to Wintweverbrennung. Don’t know where you heard that it still exists. It’s in our history books only. But even in such a case at least a crime has been comitted, as body of widow is there..but in 498a, first arrest, sieze passport, ruin career of husband and family and then it is decided if the crime was comitted at all.


Gedöns
26.7.2015 17:46
Kommentarlink

@Hadmut
„Was, bitteschön, hat das mit dem Blog-Artikel oder „vegetarisch” zu tun?“//
Meine Frage war eigentlich: wird man nur als Fleischfresser zum Rechten oder was tragen Veganer an den Füßen – bzw. dürfen diese Lederschuhe tragen (man ist und wird nur, was man isst oder sind auch andere Verwertungsarten unethisch)? Ist ein Spiegelei ein Vergehen gegen die Kreatur und wenn ja, warum dann Abtreibung nicht (weil man den Embryo nicht verspeist?)? Oder die Frage: wann ist der Mann ein Mann (wenn ich an neulich genannte feministische Lebensbornentwürfe denke). –
Ich bin ja ansonsten auch nur auf den Begriff „Parasit“ hier eingegangen.
Ist für mich eben alles verwirrend … 😉


A Stranger in a strange World
26.7.2015 18:50
Kommentarlink

@Nirbha
I’m pretty sure everybody here knows what a dowry is. In German it is called “Mitgift”.
Anyway, this knowledge does not help at all to figure out what indian lawmakers defined a “dowry harrasement” or a “dowry extortion” to be.

And even if you would be kind enough to explain this to us silly westerners it would still remain a puzzle for us how a two month old infant could be accused of this (or any other) crime. In Germany we have the legal concept that a child below the age of 14 can _not_ legally be held responsible for any crime. Even if it is certain that the child has committed the crime in question.
I’m aware of the fact an age of 14 for criminal responsibility is quite high compared to the anglosaxon world. But even in the land of the nuts no police¹ officer would arrest an infant and no judge¹ would order such an arrest.

1: Yes, I know that over there a 3 year old boy has been arrested for sexual harassment. He touched the breasts of his kindergarten teacher.
But I beg anybody not to destroy my certainty that infants enjoy impunity. Even there.


A Stranger in a strange World
26.7.2015 19:09
Kommentarlink

@Andy

Junge, du hast sie nicht mehr alle. Fortpflanzung mit Parasitentum gleichzusetzen ist intellektuell grenzdebil und mental weit jenseits der Klippe. Und zwar selbst im Vergleich zu sonstigen Äußerungen aus dem Dunstkreis der diversen feministischen Sekten.
Mein fachlich qualifizierter Rat: Lass dir deine Medikamente neu einstellen.

Und spar dir die Mühe einer Antwort. Ich füttere dich mit Sicherheit nicht nochmal. Es gibt Grenzen.


Andy
26.7.2015 21:31
Kommentarlink

> For example the statment “As you may also follow from [1] that in 85% of the cases filed, the accused is able to prove his innocence” seems to be based on an government report from “Law Commission of India Ministry of Law & Justice

I’d like to see how that happens actually. This topic aside, and not arguing validity of this percentage, I would like to understand how this can happen. Technically in all developed nations the criminal law works on the “dubio pro reo” dogma (more or less depending on how advanced or unideological the system is) simply because it is basically impossible to prove one’s innocence to plausible allegations. I wonder how the courts handle this conumdrum.

>>>Und es sind Politiker, die Männer gegen Frauen ausspielen.
>>Weil Frauen ja in Indien so furchtbar viel zu melden haben und das Land als Hochburg des Feminismus notorisch ist.
>Was hat das mit ungerechten Gesetzen zu tun?

Auch wenn die Aufmerksamkeitsspanne kurz ist, musst Du versuchen den Satz im Kontext zu begreifen. Mein Punkt ist das die Ansage das Politiker ja Frauen gegen Männer ausspielen (was ich schon an sich für zu allgemeinen Blödsinn halte) gerade in diesem Fall noch weniger relevant ist, weil Frauen da weniger Einfluss haben als Männer. Man kann nur Parteien gegeneinander ausspielen die ungefähr ähnlich starke oder weitreichende Möglichkeiten haben. Dieses vermeintliche “Ausspielen” kann nicht Quelle der Problematik sein oder die Herkunft des Gesetzes erklären. Jetzt begriffen?

One point however that has not been brought up (because as I suggested probably hardly anyone bothers to make a few google queried to learn about 498A) is the timing. Is this just now becoming an epidemic, rampant and growing issue? Has it always been that bad since the law was created in the early eighties? Has there been a slow but steady rise of allegations based on this law? This IMO is a critical point required to understand the issue and I could not really find any good statistics on that that date all the way back.

>Wo wir gerade bei 2015 sind, hast Du ein aktuelles Beispiel aus dem Jahr?
>Coming back to Wintweverbrennung. Don’t know where you heard that it still exists. It’s in our history books only.

Ist in einigen Kasten noch nicht ausgestorben der Brauch.
It supposedly still happens even today in the Rajputen caste. I’ve never been there, but I take an MSF doctors word for it in this case (Medecins sans Frontiers). It is also my understanding that this is not actually murder but more or less a case of glorified suicide that is socially accepted and honored (the now incomeless widow removes herself from being a burden to the community/society). I was just bringing up this issue not saying it’s a common issue, and evidently some of the german blog reader misunderstood or misinterpreted it.

>I’m pretty sure everybody here knows what a dowry is. In German it is called “Mitgift”. Anyway, this knowledge does not help at all to figure out what indian lawmakers defined a “dowry harrasement” or a “dowry extortion” to be.
Genau das meinte ich als ich sagte das wir hier alle unterqualifiziert sind bei dem Thema. Verständnis der Kultur, des Rechtssystems usw…

Aber wie ich schon schrob, interessant wäre jetzt mal eine Statistik die bis zur Einführung des Gesetzes zurückreicht um zu verstehen ob das ein gerade akut explodierendes Problem ist, oder eins das sich linear aufgebaut hat.

>Und spar dir die Mühe einer Antwort. Ich füttere dich mit Sicherheit nicht nochmal.
Ob und was ich antworte liegt nicht in Deinem Entscheidungsbereich sondern bestenfalls in Hadmuts (Freischaltung). Aber wunschgemäß spar ich mir konkrete Entgegnungen, primär weil ich bei offen feindseliger ad hominem Argumentation einfach nicht so gut bin wie Du.


Andy
26.7.2015 21:47
Kommentarlink

> From 8.5 it is clear that since 2003, law comission has over and over recommended that 498a needs amendments. This was another report to make law not draconian.
> Fearing amendements Government recommended another law DV-Act of 2005, similar to 498a with a difference that it will provide maintenance and compensation from husband to wife.
> Guess what..Government did not do any reform in 498a but still brought DV-Act. So since 2005, husbands have to fight 2 laws..i.e. 498a and DV (Domestic violence).

That brings me back to the question in the previous post. Has the massive misuse of this law already been a widespread and well recognized issue BEFORE the 2003 law change was put into effect? I can’t finde numbers that go back beyond 2010… and why would the government “fear” amendments?

And what is your opinion of the current efforts to repeal or change 498A as reported in 2015?

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/government-plans-to-amend-anti-dowry-harassment-law/
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Anti-dowry-law-likely-to-be-amended-soon/articleshow/46973943.cms


Nirbha
26.7.2015 22:53
Kommentarlink

ohh.. Andy, I am Rajput and my grand mother lost her husband at young age. She was not burnt. My wife is a Rajput with her alive grand-mother and dead grand-father. Her grand mother was not burnt. And I am sure she doesn’t even know Witweverbrennung because she never visited a school unlike me who read it in books.

As someone pointed out very well, that it becomes testimony against testimony. But before the testimony and proofs of accused is admitted in court, it takes at least one year and by that time his whole family has already been jailed. Damage is done, punishment given before trial or investigation. Once jailed, most husbands lose jobs. He will never be able to fly abroad. Life in engineering will only suck.

And yes, no one knows what dowry harassment is. It has been defined nowhere. Even term dowry is also very vague. This is another point that increases misuse. Anything from birthday gift to husband to bills paid for charging his mobile by wife becomes dowry.

Dowry-extortion is a phrase I never heard of.


[…] Hadmut Danisch wird gerade besprochen, wie beschissen es für Männer werden kann, wenn feministische Gesetze […]


Andy
27.7.2015 6:37
Kommentarlink

Can you supply any links or data Points in my questions regarding the numbers and trends in accusations as asked above, Nirbha? Slowly rising since the inception, currently exploding, can it be described? Is there a noticeable difference between the castes, is it worse for example in rural areas or worse in cities or the same all over?


WikiMANNia
27.7.2015 6:48
Kommentarlink

Die englischsprachige WikiMANNia sollte wieder laufen:

http://en.wikimannia.org/India
http://en.wikimannia.org/Save_Indian_Family_Foundation

Kontaktformulare finden sich hier (oben links und rechts):

http://wikimannia.org


WikiMANNia
27.7.2015 17:46
Kommentarlink

Fundstück:

Soziologie als Mode: Die Aufklärungsarbeit der Professoren Horkheimer und Adorno, Die Zeit am 29. Juni 1962

http://www.zeit.de/1962/26/soziologie-als-mode/


Maik
27.7.2015 19:49
Kommentarlink

Ich denke in Leipzig war es höchstwahrscheinlich so, dass sie mit großen unschuldigen Augen gesagt hat, wahrscheinlich unter Tränen, dass sie es nicht war und eine Schar an weißen Rittern losgezogen ist um es zu beweisen und wenn sie das liest würde sie mich am liebsten mit einer Anzeige wegen Hate Speech belegen. Das sind Frauen in meinen Augen. Tausendmal erlebt. Ja Frauen haben das Wahlrecht und wieso machen sie dann nichts dagegen? Die knallharte Wahrheit ist, dass nur eine Hälfte der Bevölkerung Empathie mit der anderen hat aber nicht umgekehrt. Warum muss der erste Kommentar gleich über deren Webseite herziehen und sie quasi als Schwächlinge bezeichnen? Auch tausendmal erlebt. MRA gegen MGTOW gegen Incel gegen PUA. Also Männer attackieren instinktiv andere Männer und beschützen die armen unschuldigen Opferinnen und am Ende des Tages sind sie die benachteiligten. Ihr müsst mal einen Moment innehalten und sachlich die Fakten analysieren, was für ein widerliches Verhalten diese Frauen dort an den Tag legen.
Dort und hier auch werden unschuldige Männer eingesperrt, weil sie es sagt. Wieso macht keine Frau etwas dagegen? Soll so ein Verhalten die Basis einer Gesellschaft sein? Wo ist der Aufschrei der Uni Leipzig, die sich doch so für Gerechtigkeit bei der Professorin einsetzt. Kein Ton zum Thema, weil es die Damen einen Dreck interessiert, ob sich in Indien deswegen 20.000 Männer umbringen. Das kann alles so nicht funktionieren. Keine Chance.


Anonymous
28.7.2015 9:31
Kommentarlink

498a is a huge problem in india. judiciary has already called it the most abused law of india. but another IPC if combined with 498a will ruin lives very easily.

IPC 304B – if a wife commits suicide or dies of unnatural death within first 7 years of marriage, then it is considered as dowry death and husband and his family are automatically/ by default have mudered her, until unless proven otherwise.

Sorry, this is different topic but important for readers to know how indian rulers are making such populistic laws to get votes. they even did amendment in evidence act under 113AA to shift burden of proof on husbands and presume them guilty.

Below is not isolated case (in hindi):
http://www.instantkhabar.com/uttarpradesh/item/24079-deoria.html#.VbRuv2QOnHo.twitter

in short:
A dead wife found alive..she left her husband and her parents approached police saying that husband killed wife for dowry and hide the deadbody. Police filed dowry death case on husband and family they were jailed. After sometime police searched for deadbody and found her alive. The death without “deadbody”. Ususlly if police has to book a murder case, the dead body must be there..but not in IPC 304B, only a doubt or testimony of wife’s parents is enough.

In some cases indian wife killed another woman, destroyed her face and ranaway with boyfriend. police found that deadbody and taadaaa..husband had 304B. Wife in depression commit suicide and it became dowry death. Even a road accident of wife = dowry death.

After all above efforts, total number of dowry deaths regieresd = ca. 8000/year. Innocence proved in 6000 cases. 2000 wives are killed by husband and officially 3300 husbands are burnt alive their by wives and there’s no special law for them. Every burning injury causing or not causing death is entered by police while a wife visits a hospital as dowry harassment or dowry death.


Anonymous
28.7.2015 12:22
Kommentarlink

Ich bin nicht sicher ob es hier gehört, aber alle die glauben sich über Frauenrechte in Indien verzweifeln:

Anzeige: IPC 376 (Vergewaltigung)
Konsequenz: 7 Jahre ins Gefängnis, sein Vater Tod nach er nicht ganzes Stress erleben konnte. Sein Frau dröht ihn mit 498a (nicht in Medienbericht) und lässte ihn die Scheidungpapapiere unterschreiben, Heiratet ein andere man, sie verlässt die Töchterchen und beide landen in Waisenhaus.
Ergebnis: Nach 7 Jahre, sagte die High Court..ohh, er war nicht der Täter.
Er will sein 7 Jahre zurück

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/gopal-shetye-acquitted-he-wants-back-7-yrs-lost-in-jail/1/450628.html

Anzeige: IPC 376 (Vergewaltigung)
Konsequenz: 4 Jahre ins Gefängnis
Ergebnis: Nach 4 Jahre, könnte er sich beweisen dass er nicht der Täter war.
Er will sein Würde zurück. Sein Petition war abgelehnt !!

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Return-my-dignity-man-absolved-of-rape-asks-SC/articleshow/18898781.cms


Christian
30.7.2015 9:13
Kommentarlink

Moin Hadmut,
hatte mal einen Kumpel von mir angeschrieben, einen indischen Senior Software Engineer (keinen Soziologen!) :-D, der auch in Indien arbeitet, und ihn zu dem Thema hier um seine Meinung gebeten.
Vielleicht gefällt sie Dir nicht, da er aus seiner Sicht die Frauen in der schwächeren Position sieht (konservatives Land/die meisten Vergewaltigungen werden nicht angezeigt/keine offene Debatte darüber/Phänomen wie “marital rape” gäbe es, sie würden aber nicht verfolgt/dysfunktionales Rechtssystem/Vergewaltigung wäre vor allem in unteren Klassen ein Problem etc.) finde sie aber interessant genug, um sie einzubringen – ihn hat’s gefreut, dass ich fragte, bzw. schrieb er “your interest in a wicked, oppressive government like India amuses me”. 🙂
Also dann:

1. what is your take on that?

When you take any law, there will always be a provision to misuse it. Of course people who don’t want to side with the truth and want to defend India’s proud(?) image tend to resort to these cases and highlight them to make their skewed point heard. Some people have even quoted the rape statistics in India and compared it to developed countries to show that India is safer country for woman. You have to note India is quite conservative country and most women and their families would not want to report it to police to save their families honor. Even if the rape is reported there is no functioning judicial system in India to hear your voice. Especially if you are a rape victim from an ordinary family (read not affluent) it might take ages for you to get the justice delivered. The court cases in India move painstakingly slow and in most cases the victim might not live long enough to see the final verdict delivered.

Below is a segment on rape which was part of Television Talk Show – Satyamev Jayate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satyamev_Jayate_(TV_series)) which was series made on various social issues plaguing our country. In fact if you are interested in India this television series would represent the true face of our country. You can find all these segments in YouTube with English subtitles although the people in it might speak in Hindi (I can help you find if you need help)

https://goo.gl/7DvJPE

2. Is there an open debate in India about all aspects of rape or not?

Not really, not in the mainstream media. I have not heard much discussion before and after the Nirbhaya case. There were much more severe cases of rape in India than that shown in BBC documentary where the brutalization is much more wicked and iniquitous in its character such as the one discussed in this video: https://goo.gl/MjsXAn and here in this article: http://www.tehelka.com/2014/01/before-nirbhaya-it-was-kiran-negi-but-the-media-ignored-her/. I don’t want to tone down the severity of the rape that was perpetrated and which was shown in the BBC documentary. If a society is honest it should have looked into the root causes of such dastardly incidents and tried to address them so that we can build a better society for future generations.

3. Is India really a country, which is very dangerous to women, because the possibility of being raped is so high?

Well it depends from which social class you come? The lower the social class the more dangerous it is. I’m also considering the marital rape as a part of my conversation here. You can refer to these articles in understanding the level of ignorance in India: http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/when-marriage-is-less-than-sacred/article7315485.ece. The government doesn’t even consider marital rape as offence: http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/when-even-rape-is-legal/article7298898.ece even in the face of overwhelming evidence: http://www.thehindu.com/data/statistics-on-marital-rape/article6586829.ece

This is utter pathetic state of affairs in India. Well should we call this a country which cannot guarantee minimum dignity and respect to half its population. Should we call the people in power – guardians and upholders of Constitution of India. I seriously doubt if we can call ourselves a country which is democratic in character.


Oliver K
30.7.2015 21:23
Kommentarlink

@Christian: “Is India really a country, which is very dangerous to women”

One should meanwhile know that this is a very stupid question: of course, India is “dangerous to woman”, because it is dangerous for everybody! India is a highly violent country, but as everywhere, most of the cost (for example of mass killings in the slums) are born by men.

The answer shows the usual “pathetic state of affairs”: the expectation is that it should be MUCH SAFER to woman than for men. The “safety of woman” is always considered in absolute terms, not asking at all how’s the situation of men.


Anonymous
31.7.2015 11:39
Kommentarlink

Hallo Christian

Es sind alle rhetorics was ich in deinem Post lesen kann, leider nichts konkretes. Ich gehe von einem Punkt zu den anderen.

“marital rape”
– Marital rape is covered in Paragraph 376B of IPC. Sex with/without consent with “seperated” (may not be divorced) wife . Any physical or mental cruelty is covered under IPC 498a and rape is physical cruelty.
– That no one speaks about a husband who can also be raped and that no where in India it is ever debated to make marital rape gender neutral is another issue which in which nobody is interest.
– Rape is India is non-bailable with accused to prove his innocence. Now if a woman files marital rape 10 yrs ago, the custody is guranteed for 1-5 years unless proven.
– Consensual Sex on context of promise (job, marriage) is also rape in India. With marital rape being treated as “usual rape”, will lead to cases where a woman can complain that before having sex she was promised for a diamond ring and a seperate house, after sex the husband denied. Now imagine, this statement can land husband for years in jail
– Any why not make marital rape gender neutral. Please ask your friend what law can protect him if he is raped on false promised by a woman or where can he file complaint if his wife shows mental or physical cruelty against him.
– How a husband can ever prove that he never promised anything and that sex 10 years back was not forced.
– Medical report is not mandetory in rape cases in India

“Misuse of Law”
– It is never easy to mis-use a criminal law in India. If you follow NCRB data, the charge-sheeting in rape and crulety to wife laws is nearly 100%, but they have lowest conviction rates. In cases of murders, the state has burden of proof before any arrest or charge-sheeting. No law maligns whole family of accused and allows victims to accuse whole family.

“Satyamev Jayate”
– It has been controversial and facing cases of forging, staging and manuplating data. The whole episode about pesticide use was farce. The episode regarding domestic violence where a women cried was later her case was proven false by court.
– Another episode regarding fetous suicide which shook India was not only staged but acted upon. Explaining each episode is out of scope to my current comments..but it is a boulevard talk-show than a documentary.

“Social Stigma around victims”
– I will not deny it..but now imagine social stigma on husbands and men. Ask your friend, how many Indian men and boys are raped, how many face violence on hands of wife and women. NO DATA. Only only has data regarding murders and suicide of men which is much higher than of women.
– Is social stigma so gross that 80% of rape cases are faked by women? Who are these women blocking complete judiciary and exahusting police resources. Are laws helping real victims or only supressing innocent men?
– Thanks for pointing at Hindu. Now read this article from Hindu

http://www.thehindu.com/data/the-many-shades-of-rape-cases-in-delhi/article6261042.ece

40% Consensual sex and 25% breach of marriage promise in a survey by Hindu that followed trails in rape cases in delhi starting from complaint. Please read.

“Nirbhaya”
Yes, we had a Nirbhaya, but tell me countries where such protests took place that it shook complete ruiling Government and they had to add capital punishment for rape, change law to charge juviniles with rape as adults? Tell me countries where rape victims get money for filing complaint and where accused is jailed from day 1 till end of the trial? Where there is no punishment for filing a fake case and no compensation for accused who lives years in jail waiting for trial. Any country where a 35 yrs old woman can sue 15 yrs juvinile of rape?

In Germany too there have been rapes..but sorry who cares?? Public protests are mostly for salary hike. And I still say that per 100,000 population rapes in Germany = 10, US = 28, UK = 27, India = 2 is a big difference..if you remove consensual sex as rape from IPC-376, you can stop 70% of rape cases.

“Is India really a country, which is very dangerous to women, because the possibility of being raped is so high?”
India is not more dangerous for women than other countries. Rapes may be less reported, but do you think it is reported at same pace in EU too? Where a woman still has to proved that she was raped.

Please ask your Indian friend to support marital rape cause but also marital rape of men. If he thinks that men can not be raped by women forcefully, emotionally or on breach of promise..then what’s harm having such provison in IPC?


Anonymous
31.7.2015 13:02
Kommentarlink

@Christian

“..When you take any law, there will always be a provision to misuse it..”
Does your friend support mis-use of law?? Since other laws can be misused, let’s have one more law that can be mis-used. 2 wrongs will make 1 right.

“..Of course people who don’t want to side with the truth and want to defend India’s proud(?) image ..”
From above post it is clear that the person has no interest in defending India’s image. He has rather maligned it. This is cool. If you speak about women’s rights, all is well, but if you speak about unfair laws against men, you are defending India’s image. In above blog, I am sure that the author hates India.

“..tend to resort to these cases and highlight them to make their skewed point heard..”
Die sind kein einzel Fälle. They are not “few” cases, but majority of cases. I am not surprised that he doesn’t care about men and if someone shows him what men go through, everything becomes offensive.

“..Some people have even quoted the rape statistics in India and compared it to developed countries..”
So now rehtorics are more important than statistics.

“..to show that India is safer country for woman..”
India is much more unsafe for men. Women have legally no responsibility but only rights. Only woman can be raped, only her modesty can be outraged, only she can be sexually molested at workplace, only she has equal right in property but she can never rape a man, never kill husband, never liable to maintain parents, kids and husband. In above blog, the person has tried to explain this.

“..You have to note India is quite conservative country..”
78% fake rape cases..India is conservative!!

“..most women and their families would not want to report it to police to save their families honor..”
Data tells the complete different story. It is not “most” but few women who don’t report. Rape is over-reported. Google Amity gang rape case, love-jihad, Baduan, Bhatinda gang-rape not mentioned above. I can send you hundreds of news cutting if you provide me Email address.

“.. Especially if you are a rape victim from an ordinary family (read not affluent) it might take ages for you to get the justice delivered..”
Again Reotohric. Above is problem for accused because if it takes ages then for ages accused is jailed. Above 2 links where a man was jailed for ages (4 years) and another for 7 years..now ask him, for whom it was problematic? Girls who charged them for rape or those who were jailed for rape?

“..The court cases in India move painstakingly slow and in most cases the victim might not live long enough to see the final verdict delivered..”
Except in some Bollywood movies, you will not find anything to support this crap. Typical rape case take 1-4 years. And presence of victim is necessary only 2 times, once to make statement in court and them again to hear final judgement. Till then the victim recives regular money from Government officialy not to drop the case and maintain herself.

“..Below is a segment on rape which was part of Television Talk Show – Satyamev Jayate..”
So it is a talk show 🙂 Has already facing cases for manuplation. It is a movie, staged show and has been under scanner for collecting and misusing donation funds and facing number of cases. I again say that I don’t deny existence of rapes in India but it doesn’t mean that every Indian is a rapist.

“..Not really, not in the mainstream media..”
This is crap. Rape sells and discussed in India more than in Germany. Search for rape + India in youtube, IPC 376. There have been protests ohne ende. In Love-Jihad case that went till parliament and riots took place due to it later became a case of girl-friend eloping with boy-friend and to save family face she filed a case of rape against 6 men. Hindu report and NCRB statistics tells completly different story. Many links from main-stream media has been posted here by him only..Give me your Email ID and I can post you hundreds more.

As I said, like any man living in any country, I don’t deny that rape don’t happen but yes, your friend at least denies that rape happen with women and girls only. Men should be protected too. Boys too. If a woman can be raped on false promise and if breaking-up with girl-friend is rape then more men are raped in India than women. but Wait..we don’t have data as men can’t complain under IPC 376.

Another TedEx video (a must watch): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_2gl7lz25E

“..If a society is honest it should have looked into the root causes of such dastardly incidents and tried to address them so that we can build a better society for future generations..”
Tut mir leid, aber es ist nur bla bla.

To your last point of MARITAL RAPE
– Indian family system will break if marital rape is shifted from IPC-376B to main paragraph of IPC-376. Government can do any bla bla..but here is the main reason:
– According to law, false promise to lure sex is rape. This will ruin husband life as after each time sex, wife can walk to police station and file rape complaint on basis of false promise. This will lead to husband immidiate arrest which will last years and lost of everything.
– The voice of men for gender neutral laws and to make marital rape will lead to heavy protests.
– Indian men are leaving India at greater pace due to laws than anything else (No statistics, but I am the one and I know 8 498a victims who did the same)
– Suicide of husband will increase. It is highest than most parts of world.
– Fake cases are not rare but regular. Please go through links and statistics and send it to your friend too. And Government is afraid to see them increasing.

And sorry, IMAGE OF INDIA ist mir mehr oder weniger schei** egal. I left that country after expereincing 498a and promised to my parents that my future generations will “never” become Indian. I sold everything I had. I left my religion (HINDU) too because most being hindu means 1 more case of maintenance and alimony if married under Hindu Marriage Act. From deep of my heart I wish if I was never born as an Indian.


Anonymous
1.9.2015 12:33
Kommentarlink

@Christian

So according to your friend Marital rape is not crime in India? Show him this:

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/ludhiana/man-booked-for-raping-wife/127117.html


Nirbha
6.9.2015 14:01
Kommentarlink

@Christian
Please forward this to your friend:

583 rape cases completed in New Delhi in 2013..
in 123 the girl accepted that she filed false case
25% of cases the girl filed rape case against boyfriend. Consensual sex but byfriend not marrying her
39% of cases were filed by parents of the girl after the girl eloped with her boyfriend and married him.
Only “12” cases out of 583 were fully argued

http://www.mensxp.com/special-features/today/25489-most-rape-cases-reported-in-india-are-false-here-are-some-shocking-statistics.html


Anonymous
15.9.2015 12:28
Kommentarlink

Indian police to arrest a “dog” after wife of a minister of ruiling party in Delhi filed 498a against the husband stating that he let his dog loose on her while she was pregnant.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/newdelhi/now-cops-want-custody-of-aap-mla-somnath-bharti-s-dog/article1-1390414.aspx

A “parrot” has been arrested already in another case for using abusive language against an old woman:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/11811135/Parrot-arrested-for-swearing-at-85-year-old-woman-in-India.html